I agree these are two serious issues. The second issue emerged in Randy Schmidt's biography on Karen (Little Girl Blue: The Life of Karen Carpenter). I can imagine Agnes saying this to Karen. But keep in mind, unless Karen had the phone on speakerphone or taped the conversation, it's unlikely that the quote of Agnes (effectively saying that Karen made her bed and had to lay in it), is a word for word quote. I'm just saying to keep in mind that words can get miscommunicated- Agnes to Karen to Frenda to Randy. Some context could have been lost.
The first issue I am more likely to believe as Richard approved the scene in the Karen Carpenter Story movie that depicted the events. Richard thought it was fine. It was probably the single most damning part of the movie with regards to his mother and he left in the scene.
I do not have any doubts that Agnes loved her daughter. However, she was terrible in expressing herself. Agnes also could come across as domineering. In any interview with Karen's dad, Harold, Agnes seems to quickly to take control back of the conversation, not having the patience for his drawl.
Agnes Carpenter After Karen's Death on Good Morning America
But I do believe that Agnes loved Karen very much. When you think about it, Agnes was supportive of Karen. She got her the drums afterall! Sure Richard, may have encouraged it, but I get the sense that Karen had a good childhood and if she wanted to do something, her mother supported her.
We don't really know the details of Agnes' life. Remember she helped raise her niece and possibly delayed having Richard and Karen to later in life because of that responsibility. Taking in another child is a big deal and very generous.
At the end of the day, Agnes did a lot to help her family. She went to work to help earn money. She helped find the friend of the friend who got the demo tape to A&M. You could argue that she did that out of her own ambition. But I truly believe that she believed in the talent of both her kids.
I loved Randy's book. However, it seemed that all the attention in articles and the media around the book went straight to the couple of new tidbits that were revealed about Agnes. The media loved that. Those were only a couple of pages out of the entire book. Everyone seems to ignore the parts outside Tom Burris and Agnes. This was my only qualm with the bio. Most of the story we had heard before except for these revelations. Both explain a lot of the demise of Karen near the end with regards to Tom Burris. However, there was the unfortunate side effect of over bashing on Agnes. Who knows what she really said to Karen about getting married.
Agnes was a tough woman, no doubt. Many people have to deal with parents who are undemonstrative and authoritative In fact, many deal with far, far worse. This is not why someone tortures themselves the way Karen did. Karen had her own issues that I will explore in other posts.
Its part of the issue, though. Especially because it wasn't really ok for her to move out to Century City, that was not OK with her Mom. And she was a millionaire at the time, not like she couldn't pay the bills and was milking Mom for rent money. Just my opinion, but I have dealt with similar things and its not easy.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think her mom had a hold on her and guilted her into things. Compare her with Olivia Newton-John. Olivia lived on her own, in a different country.. she had much more independence. That builds confidence. Karen simply didn't have that freedom and she wasn't the type to rebel.
DeleteI believe the mother had psychiatric issues that were never addressed (or that she never wanted to address). This must be the reason why she was hard on her family. There's a quote in the Randy Schmidt book that Agnes was compulsively clean, ''almost to the point of having some kind of psychiatric issues.'' Not much is known about Agnes, apart from the fact that she was undemonstrative. I would like to know more about her. There seems to be very little research done on her as to what type of life she led; her relationship with her family and what challenges she had in her life.
ReplyDeleteMost definitely. But her mom would *never* have been able to see that she herself had problems.
DeleteHi Aurora,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you still monitor your blog posts after all these years, but I just discovered your blog and have been very impressed with your insights and even handed approach to Karen's life and untimely demise. My fascination with Karen largely mirrors your own, only in a much more recent vein. I am currently 66, and remember vividly the very first time I heard the Carpenters on the radio at 12 years old (Close To You in 1970). I was very aware of them on the radio through high school, but then lost track of them in college. I think the last album that I was aware of was "Now and Then", before losing track of their career, and only being reminded of them upon the news of her death in '83. In spite of that tragic and sad news, they once again fell off my radar until 40 years later, when I saw a YouTube interview with Randy Schmidt about his new documentary "Karen Carpenter: Starving for Perfection". That prompted me to go buy his book "Little Girl Blue", and I was hooked all over again. I went back and listened to their entire catalog in chronological order and was simply blown away by not only the beauty of Karen's voice but by the arrangements and production quality of the music.
Since that time, I have been fascinated with learning whatever I could about her life, and the reasons behind her struggles with Anorexia. In reading your post: "In Defense of Agnes", I was wondering if some of the additional revelations regarding her relationship with Karen that have come to light since your last post has altered your opinion in any way? Specifically, during Randy's documentary, Maria Galeazzi is interviewed at length (the DVD version has extended outtakes of all of the interviews). She witnessed interactions on multiple occasions between Agnes and Karen as well as Agnes and Richard. She states that in her observations, Agnes never had a kind word to say to Karen. No encouragement or appreciation for Karen's contributions. Rather it was always in the vein of criticism or nit picking. Meanwhile her tone and approach towards Richard was the complete opposite.
In interviews Randy had done with Evelyn Wallace, she also stated that Agnes simply preferred Richard to Karen, and saw everyone's role and duty in the family to support Richard's musical career. Perhaps this lends some credence to an alleged comment that Agnes made to Karen upon hearing her solo album. It was along the lines of "you'll never be as good as Richard", which I'm sure Karen had shared with Frenda.
Obviously, Agnes loved her daughter at some level, but her extreme favoritism towards Richard, and her inability to even express any positive thoughts, let alone expressed love to her daughter must have had a devastating impact on Karen's self worth. I don't intend to paint the picture that Karen was a total victim, as she clearly had her own issues and made some very bad choices. However, I don't think she was set-up psychologically for success in her life, and obviously had little to no control over her personal and professional life.